SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

In the time I’ve been on SI (around 1 year) I have read and been told multiple times that no BH who has chosen to D/S has regretted it

Currently right now we have not 1 but 2 BH’s posting that for reasons of loneliness / children they do regret their decision to leave and they are considering or actively moving forwards with a new attempt at reconciliation.

In addition there are at least 4 BH’s (myself included) in the phase between telling their WW they want a D and actually physically separating, who for want of a better description are in and out like a fiddlers elbow.

My analysis of all of these situations indicates we have WWs who do regret their choice to cheat, would probably take it back if they could, are very forthcoming with ramping up the affection and focusing on any positive fallout of the A like closer connection, HB etc but for reasons that I just cannot understand cannot (or will not) accept the negative consequences such as lower trust levels, adjustments to their daily lives to make their spouses feel safe (transparency, NC etc)

My observation from the posters stories are that these WWs are not inherently bad people, made terrible choices, sadly doubled down on these terrible choices by refusing to acknowledge the BH’s pain and now years down the line are still trying to rugsweep.

I’m not entirely sure what the point of my posts is but I guess I have 2 questions

1. Are the 2 posters mentioned above genuinely the first BH’s that have come back after D/S and said they regret their decision to leave?

2. What is going on with our WW’s who desperately want to stay M but even when faced with the ultimate consequence of D/S can’t or refuse to accept the proven steps to achieve that? Why is D/S an easier pill to swallow than what you are asking them to do?

TD

Why is D/S an easier pill to swallow than what you are asking them to do?

It is easier for some people to walk away and not have to face any consequences. Why bother to reconcile when they can move on and just live however they choose? The cheater can continue the affair, tell themselves they “deserve to be happy” and remain selfish.

The part that always concerns me is how little concern the cheater has for the children. They don’t care about trashing their lives and causing damage and pain.

@the1st wife

I would understand in that scenario but in the stories I am referring to the WWs are no longer pining for their AP they want their BH But won’t do what the BH is asking for to make it a possibility

In my own situation I’ve referred to it as almost like a game of chicken. I think that WGF expects me to have some kind of eureka moment after separation that I do love her and miss her

Well guess what I already know in advance I still love her and will miss her and it’s not stopping me going through with separation.

I can't answer question 1.

In regards to question 2, its very complicated and I don't think there is only one answer.

Some are just not willing to do the hard work. It is hard. I would compare it to someone (many of us, including me) who look at their physique and WANT to be fit. I want to change my diet, exercise more, be healthier. But it is a lot of work. I try, but I COULD put a lot more effort into it.

I think some are like that. Going to counseling, reading the books, focusing on what is broken, putting the BS first, changing the way they THINK, it is a lot of work. IMO, as it is their M and their family, a WS should make it big priority, but some people don't have that in them.

I think that it holds true that no BH who has chosen to D has regretted it. I believe that the two BH posters you referred to are S, not D. I decided to stay with my then WW for the sake of my three kids in order to say to them and myself that I gave the M my best shot. I’ve been D for 2.5 years now, and have no regrets, well maybe only that I should have D sooner.

I'm not certain of what posts the OP is referring to, but I would suspect that there is a high degree of possibility that the feeling of regret is temporary. They may pass through it or they may R only to discover that D/S was indeed the right choice. There is a great TED talk on choice and happiness, but the takeaway was that people who gave a chance to redo do their choices are less happy.

It is also possible, but less likely that those posters who regret D will reconcile and attribute the choice to D as the critical factor in the R.

My thought is that if you ask people who are 6+ months out of the emotional nightmare of divorce, you may not find any regrets. Lots of people question things in the midst of it or in the immediate aftermath of separation. My theory is that if you give yourself time and space to move on and fall out of love with that person, you will hit a point of clarity where you see them for who they are. At that point, the person you are no longer in love with who cheated on you isn't looking like your ideal mate. Too much reality seeps in and you aren't likely to reconcile later on.

TD-

Those two posters are not the first, nor will they be the last. Regret? I'm not sure about regret, but scared of the impact to kids, financial and lost of love is a definite yes. I think I know the threads and in some of those cases, you can see that they were still smoking the hopium pipe after moving to D/S. You can see it in their post. What I don't understand is after all this time, and their WWs still not getting it, still having some kind of connection with the AP, and they are willing to accept these breadcrumbs from the WW.

After this type of betrayal, the WW better be working night and day to repair the damage that they caused by nuking the marriage. To accept anything less than 110% effort, remorse and the WW spending large amount of time on repairing all the damage in various ways, including sex, affirmation, kids, friends and family apologies is accepting less than one should after this type of transgression. Everyone has their own limits, and their own ideas on what is acceptable, but what we witness here time and again is that if if that effort is lacking, many of them end up back here again at a later date. Rugsweeping and accepting of less speaks to the BS, their own tolerance, codependency and self esteem. On the flip, ask yourself how many repeat offenders come back to the JFO forum years later to decided to stick it out only to find themselves in a world of hurt again.

There is no guarantee when committing to R that it will work out in the long run. There is a guarantee that if you D, than you take away the opportunity for the WW to hurt or to betray you a second time. That's 100.

2. As it relates to the WWs, I think it comes down to settling. If they are truly remorseful and have gotten there (this can sometimes take a little time after all that time pining for the AP) than those are the ones you see bending over backwards and spending much time on their knees trying to make amends. But that's not the case in these other situations. One was just a recently as a month ago still porking the AP, pining away about being with them. In this case, I think they're settling on with plan B, which is their BS. SO you have minimal efforts, hopes for a rugsweep. They only do as much as need, or sometimes, they do a lot at the beginning to secure their BS from leaving, only to revert back and hope for rugsweep. Youll never know their true motives for wanting to stay in the M, but you do know that just a month back they were actively screwing the AP and being shitty spouses.

I'm in my first month away from the WS, have spoken to an IC several sessions, and am on anti-depressants. I'm secure financially, all the logistics are pretty much done, I'm just not secure emotionally. Most days the pain is a dull ache that's always there. Other days (like today) it's in the foreground because of some trigger...today it was the filing of the Quit Claim Deed.

My WS has never shown regret or desire to R. I'm not quite into NC but close enough to be healing. I honestly cannot say what I would do if she suddenly contacted me and requested R. I know I should tell her to pound sand (betrayal can't be undone) but I can't say for certain what I'd do. Maybe like someone else said, in 6 months I could give a definitive "no".

1. Are the 2 posters mentioned above genuinely the first BH’s that have come back after D/S and said they regret their decision to leave?

I cannot recall any specific BHs who have done this. However, it doesn't surprise me. Surviving infidelity and S/D is extremely difficult no matter what the situation or circumstances.

More often than not, BHs who give R a shot but end up divorcing only regret that they didn't pull the trigger sooner. I'm one of those BHs. As much as I wanted to believe reconciliation was possible for me, I was only deluding myself.

2. What is going on with our WW’s who desperately want to stay M but even when faced with the ultimate consequence of D/S can’t or refuse to accept the proven steps to achieve that? Why is D/S an easier pill to swallow than what you are asking them to do?

Those proven steps are far more difficult, I think, than you think they are. Some wayward spouses are simply unable or unwilling to do the work that R requires, for a wide variety of reasons.

If you're really curious to understand these questions a little better, I'd suggest spending a little time in the Betrayed Menz Thread in the I Can Relate forum.

I can't imagine that they are the first two. But I think the ratio is still rather lopsided.

For the second question, I do not think some can genuinely do it. It is too much of a hit to their ego and lying is so easy. I actually believe that lying is pretty normal in these circumstances and I think almost everyone would do it. I'm going to level with you, I think if I had an affair, I would probably lie also... it would be really hard not to.

But that's the point, I don't want to be faced with that moral difficulty. I'd rather behave better to begin with so that I don't have to lie later to get out of it. Knowing that I would probably lie to get out of it makes me uncomfortable and is a deterent to me.

I think there is an element of wishful thinking or bargaining in the regret over divorcing. Something along the lines of feeling like the divorce is hard and its hard on the kids and if you had stayed maybe it would have been okay and none of you would have had to go through that.

I'm 100% confident that my divorce was the right choice. And since we have been divorced my exWH has spiraled into someone I don't even know and a horrific father and I'm left to hold crying kids over why their dad isn't seeing them. And even though my rage towards him is unbelievable I will have fleeting moments of "if I had just stayed married he would have never gone of the deep end and they wouldn't have to go through this." which is nonsense but if even in my extreme circumstances I can have that thought then its easy to see others could have regrets.

But I don't think they are permanent and i don't even think its regret over the divorce but more grief over having to end a marriage.

Thanks for all the great responses

@dogcopter. You hit on a great point and it’s very honest of you to mention it. I too believe that everybody is wired to desire some “strange” especially after 20 years or so but

Like you I always knew that I personally would not be able to deal with the guilt and that was always enough deterrent for me.

Would i lie though? Well I actually have experience that tells me I wouldn’t. I posted about it last year. I stepped over the line drunk at a batchelor party over 20 years ago, a stranger kissed me and I didn’t stop it quickly enough. I should’ve read the situation before it happened and that was on me. I left the venue immediately, went home and woke my GF up to tell her what had happened. I didn’t lie, I didn’t gaslight, minimise, or any of the things she did 20 years later. I knew at the time it could be a dealbreaker for her but I still told the truth. I spent the next 20 years consciously avoiding situations where boundaries get crossed, Much to the annoyance of some of my friends but for me once bitten twice shy.

TD

[This message edited by TwoDozen at 5:45 AM, May 21st (Friday)]

It takes great strength of character to not lie about it. I think it's tied right into denial and acceptance in your own mind. Accepting that you've done something horrible is really difficult and for some, it's impossible. I think that's why so many WS cannot do what they need.

I have empathy for that. I'm not leaving because my WW had trouble admitting that she did something terrible and having the depth of understanding that is tied to that. I'm leaving because she never learned from her behavior. She became a serial cheater.

I think it's critical to avoid it at the actions itself. If someone isn't committed to that, they will never avoid lying.

I'd like to believe I would tell the truth but I'm not sure I would. This knowledge deters me from engaging if the action to begin with.

In short, I think most WS can't R, the damage had already been done with the action. It can be unreasonable to expect them to ever really understand. The real test of R is whether to changed behavior or not. Do they still hiding things? Etc

2. What is going on with our WW’s who desperately want to stay M but even when faced with the ultimate consequence of D/S can’t or refuse to accept the proven steps to achieve that? Why is D/S an easier pill to swallow than what you are asking them to do?

I pondered this a lot nearly a decade ago - my WXH was begging me to reconcile, but just couldn't do what I needed. There was a show at the time called "The Increasingly Poor Decisions of Todd Margaret" and we were watching it together a few weeks after D-Day when we were trying to decide what to do and he said he felt like Todd Margaret - no matter what he (WXH) wanted, he kept making bad decisions and compounding them with more bad decisions.

At the time, I read a ton of books on psychological issues, trying to determine if WXH really could change and trying to figure out if I'd be happier with him or happier divorced. And what really struck me is that pretty much all the books said it is nearly impossible for someone to change their core personality. They can develop coping skills to have different behaviors, but at their core, humans can't really change. Every time I say that here, people disagree and give anecdotal evidence about change, so who knows. But if you look at twin studies, it's amazing how similar the personalities are of identical twins raised apart.

I think Tigersrule gives a great example about wanting to get in better shape, knowing what to do, and still not doing it. I'd guess most of us have something like that. For me, it's organizational skills. I'd love for my house to look like a show house with everything in its place. I try to put things back where they belong, but I still have books piled on a side table, magazines i'm going to read on a bench, coats hanging over chairs, etc. I am working on implementing behavioral changes to help me be neater, but at my core i am a messy person, so I could never successfully live with a neat freak. We'd both be unhappy. I really think cheaters are like that. At their core, they are deceitful people who are able to justify breaking their vows. I'm sure most never thought they would cheat. Who wants to be a cheater? But it's who they are. Some may be able to not physically cheat by learning new behaviors (never being alone with someone of the gender to which they are attracted, stopping alcohol, giving spouse facebook password) but would likely still cheat if put into a tempting situation. Whereas someone not wired for cheating could be in the most tempting situation ever and not cheat at all. It's why we can't understand it. I can't understand someone not being in great shape - I am health conscious, exercise daily, and it's a part of who I am. I know other people can't understand why I have kitchen counters that are covered in appliances, towels, old vases, etc.

And with that I'm going to go try to (yet again) organize my kitchen. I do still hold out hope I can really change, even though I doubt it's actually possible!

2. What is going on with our WW’s who desperately want to stay M but even when faced with the ultimate consequence of D/S can’t or refuse to accept the proven steps to achieve that? Why is D/S an easier pill to swallow than what you are asking them to do?

Cake eating generally, or selfishness more specifically. Staying married with appropriate boundaries and limitations is not something they are willing to accept. They want to be single and married. That's pretty much it. When push comes to shove, single offers more chances for selfish decision making.

It's almost always the answer. It's a combination of stupidity and simplicity that is hard to believe. You just have to abandon the confines of reality to understand where they are coming from.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 10:58 AM, May 21st (Friday)]

@phmh I think you’re right. Do you know about 3 weeks ago when WGF gave her mum a half baked notification that we Were separating and not saying exactly why my MIL called me the next day and said “my daughters lying to me, she’s lied her entire life, I know you won’t lie, what happened Twodozen”

For 24 years I didn’t know this, I didn’t really know she was a lier, because she didn’t have to. She always got what she wanted from me until eventually after 24 years she wanted something else. Then the lying came so easy to her that it was clearly natural, something from her core make up.

FYI I didn’t tell MIL what happened only that is a conversation she needs to have with her daughter. That I won’t lie so I won’t say anything.

At the core the lying behavior is really the issue.

In my situation I firmly believe this.

You can reconcile with someone who lies to you as easily as drinking a glass of water, but the reconciliation will be as lasting as that same glass of water. It will eventually end in the toilet.

Lots of people question things in the midst of it or in the immediate aftermath of separation. My theory is that if you give yourself time and space to move on and fall out of love with that person, you will hit a point of clarity where you see them for who they are.

I wholeheartedly agree with DevastatedDee.

Although I knew intellectually that any attempts at R would be doomed, it took my heart about two years to catch up with my head. After that, not a second of regret, just an overwhelming sense of relief that lasts to today!