SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi WS
My OH cheated when our son was 4 weeks old, and whilst my dad was dying and went and stopped in a hotel with AP after a night out on the night of the day he died. He never once texted me to see if I was ok, and showed zero remorse on DD - 2 days before my dad's funeral. He left me and chased after her - telling her he wanted to marry her, he had been in love with her for years etc. He came back after he realised AP had finished with him completely.

I guess I'm trying to figure out this mentality, he's now very apologetic and is putting 100% into fixing things 6 months on whilst I'm left dealing with the trauma of it all.

Did any love or remorse disappear for your BS when you were focussed on AP?

Dear hyperactivepineapple,

I am so sorry for what you have suffered. What a terrible betrayal, to have your OH cheat when you were so vulnerable. 6 months on, you have a new baby, still grieving your father and now this to deal with. I hope you don't mind me adding you to my prayers.

When I was cheating, I was intensely selfish. I try not to be judgmental about myself when saying this. I was a terribly hurting person. The thing about terribly hurting people is that they can hurt other people, even worse than they are hurting themselves, and they are so self-focused that they literally don't see or even imagine other people's pain. For me, my BS didn't really exist as a person with feelings or desires or hurts while I was cheating. I was so self-focused that nothing much existed.

Your husband may not identify his cheating as rooted in being terribly hurting, but I think that there was something going on inside of him that erased you. Unless he is a sociopath or enjoys seeing other people suffering, it's not that he pondered what you were going through as a new mother or the daughter of a dying father; he likely didn't think about it at all, or hurried his thoughts away when he did start to think about you. Now that he's actually thinking about you again, I'm not surprised that he is apologetic. I hope that he is able to work a bit harder on understanding how he got to the point of engaging with an AP in the first place, so that he can fix up whatever was in him that made that seem like a good idea.

Take care, I am sorry for the loss of your father, and I hope you enjoy moments of sweetness with your baby.

Dear ws s thank you for your input and support! It’s invaluable! My question is if you felt at some point that enough was enough with the rumination of your bs. If you experienced that you cannot carry anymore the burden lets say. If you felt that your bs s sorrow was too much after three years in reconciliation. If you felt pressure. If you felt that you are not happy but at the same time you claim that you love your bs and that she is your only family.

Hi, everyone. My question is particularly for "repeat" WSs who expressed genuine deep remorse the first time, worked on the relationship, and then had a relapse after several years (either with the same or a different AP, either in the same or a different relationship).

What were the mental hoops you jumped through to justify your actions to yourself, despite past experience where you saw the BS broken? Is there anything you could have heard from a friend that would have helped you come out of the fog?

I am not a repeat offender, but I feel like I can provide some insight into this. First would highlight that someone may have "worked on the relationship", but a someone who could inflict that damage again likely never undertook the significant effort to understand why they made their terrible choices and what they need to do to heal whatever is broken inside them. I can honestly say that my marriage was really good and I could not think of a single thing that my wife was doing or not doing that resulted in my affair. The foundational issues that contributed to my choices included being a very broken and traumatized individual that felt entitled and selfish. I was much younger and immature with lots of unresolved trauma that created a pattern of me hiding things I was ashamed of from my wife resulting in me being able to compartmentalize so much that the thought of what I was doing never crossed my mind when I was with AP. For years after my brain kept that wall in place, but when that wall started to crumble years later and I realized the gravity of what I had done I hit rock bottom. I have spent time in IC deconstructing how I got to this point and feel like I understand myself for the first time in 40 years and the thought of ever betraying my wife again makes me physical ill.

My dad was a serial cheater and that continued deep into his old age (multiple wives). He never could look introspectively to understand why he continued to destroy his life and the lives of those who he should have been doing everything to protect. I firmly believe that most WS have deep seated issues that will plague their relationship(s) until they work on resolving them. Someone can think they feel guilty and shameful for their actions, work on the marriage, etc, but that will not fix what contributed to their infidelity until they work on themselves.

Thank you for sharing your story, feelingverylow. I appreciate your insight. I'm glad you have been able to work on your previous unresolved trauma in IC.

Hi Phosphorescent (love the name), thank you for your kind words.

My question is if you felt at some point that enough was enough with the rumination of your bs. If you experienced that you cannot carry anymore the burden lets say. If you felt that your bs s sorrow was too much after three years in reconciliation. If you felt pressure. If you felt that you are not happy but at the same time you claim that you love your bs and that she is your only family.

I think there were times when I felt like I needed a break but I tried to keep them relatively short and then dive back in. There were definitely times I thought my BS was stuck, that he has a point of view that didn't make sense to me but I wasn't the person to point that out, and I asked that he start to see an IC (which he did - it has been invaluable to him but initially it was only 'because you asked') and then much later I insisted that we see an MC, and I chose someone very carefully who he would feel was on his side. There are other times when I was eager to hear the difficult parts because now I understand and have experienced that these discussions draw us closer, and that it helps me even if these conversations are uncomfortable and/or painful.

That's my experience and it sounds like it's not yours. Have you and your wayward made progress and then got to a stuck point? Or is your wayward trying to rugsweep? If your wayward just needs a break can you set a timeline, say, let's have a month where we don't talk about the affair but then we set aside a full morning to really listen to each other? Can you find a rhythm that works for both of you?

My question for the WS spouses out there is why do WS act like it never happened and won't bring it up in conversations with the BS. My wife's LTA was incredibly long as she led a dual life for 15 years. Outside of actually talking about this period in her life she has been a kind and loving wife since Dday 3 years ago. I have learned that my wife is a conflict avoidant through all of this and has never discussed her deep feelings openly with me. I am the complete opposite. I truly feel this was part of the problem in our marriage to begin with, the lack of deep and truthful communication. We are both in our late 60's now and I don't think it's ever too late to start communicating openly about the hard stuff we avoid. There never seems to be a good time to start a conversation like this and I feel like I'm a conflict avoidant sometimes too. I did get sporadic conversations with her in the months after Dday but I know after over 3 years now that I imagine she sees thing much differently and her answers would be more focused and truthful.

Thanks,

Lost1313

Dear ws s thank you for your input and support! It’s invaluable! My question is if you felt at some point that enough was enough with the rumination of your bs. If you experienced that you cannot carry anymore the burden lets say. If you felt that your bs s sorrow was too much after three years in reconciliation. If you felt pressure. If you felt that you are not happy but at the same time you claim that you love your bs and that she is your only family.

I feel like some of it was greatly hidden from me. He gave me a new ring before we were two years out and things seemed like they were mostly fine.

Of course he was just checked out and having his own affair, by the time 3 years in I was discovering it.

However, I really think by about a year in I was so remorseful, and I could see how I had gotten I where I was. So I was so focused on changing that I don’t believe I would have found his feelings to be a burden. When I found out about the affair I asked him to get therapy and really get clear about what he wanted. I told him that I would give him some time and that I accept it if we need to get divorced.

So our journey may not have been like yours but my years 3-5 were about truly defining how we both wanted to proceed rather than wanting each other to get over it.

All this to say, I think the best way to move forward is with no forced outcome in mind. Considering all options what do each of you want? Because once you have made time and space for those questions, when you come back from that period of detachment, you can begin again.

I personally think that most reconciliations that I have noted to be successful required some period of detachment and self exploration towards what do you really want? Because navigating reconciliation with that clear purpose can help with both acceptance and allowing yourself to come back into the relationship with less cognitive dissonance.

My question for the WS spouses out there is why do WS act like it never happened and won't bring it up in conversations with the BS. My wife's LTA was incredibly long as she led a dual life for 15 years. Outside of actually talking about this period in her life she has been a kind and loving wife since Dday 3 years ago. I have learned that my wife is a conflict avoidant through all of this and has never discussed her deep feelings openly with me. I am the complete opposite. I truly feel this was part of the problem in our marriage to begin with, the lack of deep and truthful communication. We are both in our late 60's now and I don't think it's ever too late to start communicating openly about the hard stuff we avoid. There never seems to be a good time to start a conversation like this and I feel like I'm a conflict avoidant sometimes too. I did get sporadic conversations with her in the months after Dday but I know after over 3 years now that I imagine she sees thing much differently and her answers would be more focused and truthful.

It’s hard to say why your wife doesn’t bring it up. I don’t think that is going to change on its own.

It could be that things seem fine and the rugsweeping is more comfortable.

I know it’s hard to bring up- have you ever considered writing her a letter? You write beautifully, and I think if you write it all down - all that you are feeling and tell her that her silence is putting a lot of the onus on you to cope with when she has the ability to help explain it makes it difficult for you to heal. Tell her you need answers and want to have a deeper relationship with her but you need her to lead this effort.

And maybe even offer to do therapy together.

I fear what is going to happen is one of you is going to pass without ever resolving this. If she was gone tomorrow would you wish you put more urgency into asking for what you need?

I certainly believe it’s appropriate, normal, and understandable that you need to have these discussions. If she doesn’t feel that way, 3 years later after reading how you are feeling I would say she needs to go into individual therapy and figure out her stuff, and I would make that a requirement for the marriage to continue.

Thank you for your kind words hikingout.

The one thing positive I have gotten out of this incredibly painful journey of Infidelity is the incredible amount of journaling I have done to heal and to get my frustrations out. I never wrote this much through 12 years of school. Because of this I have become quite the writer and I think it comes naturally with me now because it's all raw and it's all real emotions. Thank you for acknowledging that part of my journey and thank you for your insights. It is much appreciated.

Lost1313

Hi former WSs, thank you for sharing your perspectives here. Another question from me. How do you regard other WSs now? Do you maintain an "I don’t judge" stance, or does it unsettle you?

I spoke with my ex-WP last week. (We broke up years ago for different reasons than the A, though looking back I’m sure it played a part). Now he is single but an AP to a WP. We had a candid conversation where I asked him what he thinks about cheating. He said he would never again cheat on a partner, but he wouldn’t judge a WP who does. I cannot comprehend this.

Hi JavaChip, I'm 17 yrs out this Christmas and fully reconciled. I would say I don't "judge" anyone as far as good/bad but more like healed/broken. How I accept a WS is more a function of where they are in the process. Some, accept their faults, go through counseling, get straight (it's almost always validation) and move onto life with or without their spouse. However, when I encounter someone in an active affair, I'll avoid them if I can. If not, I'll suggest they either fix their marraige or divorce. Most, don't want anyone to know. Either way, they aren't a threat to me or a temptation. I went through the work and I have zero desire for any woman other than my wife. I even run a business where 99% of my customers are women. I am healed and happy that I still have my wife. I would rather talk about those possibilities than the stupidity of the affair.

NWA

[This message edited by NeverWillAgain at 8:58 PM, Sunday, November 16th]

Thank you for sharing, NWA. I'm so glad you were able to do the work on yourself and in R. Your point of view sounds healthy from someone who did all the work.

My ex-WP was very resistant to IC back then and still is. I don't understand how he is okay causing pain to another BP by being an AP. But it's he who needs to do that work, and I need to do my own work, and rumination will get me nowhere. Anyway, thank you again and I wish you the best.

Hard to be too judgy when you have walked the same path. My initial reaction when I hear about someone we know experiencing infidelity is profound sorrow knowing how traumatic it will be to everyone. I often wonder what trauma or damage the WS has that contributed to their terrible choices. My dad is a serial cheater and I recently found out he is cheating on his current wife (he is 78 years old). I still have lots of issues from the way he abandoned us when my mom finally had enough of his cheating, but the anger has given way to feeling very sorry for him. He will depart this life without ever having a honest relationship or true love. One of the hardest parts for me about my infidelity is seeing him in myself. I have spent the last 20 years regretting my decisions and an actively working to repair the damage I have done so I feel like our paths diverged at the point of the first infidelity and hope I am less like him every day.

I think that once you have been a ws you understand how someone can fall in that mindset.

If I knew someone was cheating and I had access to talk to them I probably would. I also would not keep a secret from their spouse.

I know how destructive an affair is both to the BsS and the person having it. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. But judging them would be hypocritical. I don’t like cheating, but I don’t think most people who cheat are inherently bad or evil. Sure there are pathological people who cheat, but for most I think they have a lot of work and growth to do on themselves.

I also do not believe anyone deserves to be cheated on.

Thank you, feelingverylow and hikingout. I appreciate the time you've taken to share your thoughts, and you've given me a lot to think about.

I want to thank the WS's for their insights. It really does help!!

I want to ask the WS's out there how long did it take to feel desire and attraction for your BS after your affair ended? My wife had an unusually long 15 year affair which ended over 3 years ago. We are both in our late 60's and have changed emotionally and physically in the last 3 years. My wife has gotten back on track spiritually and is now involved in regular bible studies. My wife has been a loving and caring wife for the last couple years but the one thing that has not returned is her desire and attraction for me. That is very hard for me because I am the complete opposite with her. Intimacy now is scheduled once a week on the weekends and very rarely is there anything in between. When we are intimate I am the only one initiating and as much as I enjoy pleasing her it would be nice if she would return the favor now and the. I have seen and heard what she was doing for her affair partner which makes this even more painful. Now I know what i have to do and that is to openly communicate with her about this. Communication has been our problem in the first place and i know it starts there. I was just curious about the WS's point of views and if they could offer me some insight from their perspective.

Thanks,

Lost1313

[This message edited by Lost1313 at 5:09 PM, Thursday, November 20th]

For me it didn’t have as much to do with being attracted to him, more it was greatly improved when we started spending more time together and having deeper conversation. My feelings of sexual desire usually comes from emotional intimacy. Secondary to that, when he initiates then I can have a responsive desire.

I know you already realize that hormones after menopause can be tricky. I am getting there now. We are right now in the same boat you are describing and I am planning to talk to him about it over the weekend. I am not happy about the decline, though I also don’t want to put pressure on him because his meds is likely the issue. I am hoping to hear he is not happy with the situation either, though this is more recent and I wouldn’t categorize this as something we have dealt a lot with.

All this to say is you may see this as an attraction issue. I don’t think I have ever not been attracted to my husband. But sex is not always the biggest indicator of attraction. It’s sometimes a libido issue. I think my husband has a libido issue right now, and so many things can affect it or improve it.