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Right, leaving the job is a must and she should be volunteering to do it without you having to ask her to. She broke this and she should be coming to you with things she will do or wants to do to help you trust her again. You shouldn’t have to tell her, she should take the lead if she really wants to fix things between you and help you recover from her affair.

There's other things that I wished she would do, but I ended up having to tell her what they were and now they don't feel real or 100% true if that makes sense. Our new MC (and the old one) both basically told her to leave her job. They don't tell you what to do but were very surprised that she was staying there.

This is right of the cheaters playbook stuff. I understand you might get angry at me for saying this, but I participate here to help from my own pain, experience and lessons learned. I was married for 20 yrs and trusted my ex whole heartedly. She did things I would have never beleived. If I could lay odds - I would bet with 90% certanity that your wife engaged in some form of sexual physical contact with this man and I imagine it has most likely been going on longer what you think. All of the things that seem forbidden actually drives a significant number of cheaters. I would demand a polygraph and have her go through with it. Especially given the fact that she is continuing to work with her affair partner. I am so sorry your here my friend. You can-not wish your way out of it. What are the hardline things you want - identify them and ask for them.

This is right of the cheaters playbook stuff. I understand you might get angry at me for saying this, but I participate here to help from my own pain, experience and lessons learned. I was married for 20 yrs and trusted my ex whole heartedly. She did things I would have never beleived. If I could lay odds - I would bet with 90% certanity that your wife engaged in some form of sexual physical contact with this man and I imagine it has most likely been going on longer what you think. All of the things that seem forbidden actually drives a significant number of cheaters. I would demand a polygraph and have her go through with it. Especially given the fact that she is continuing to work with her affair partner. I am so sorry your here my friend. You can-not wish your way out of it. What are the hardline things you want - identify them and ask for them.

I get where you're coming from—and I appreciate that you're speaking from your own experience. This shit leaves scars, and I respect that you're trying to spare someone else from learning the hard way.

That said, I’ve read their initial conversations. I know exactly when it started. She told him it couldn’t get physical, and I have that in writing. Do I know for sure it didn’t happen before that? No. I don’t. All I can do is decide whether I believe her, and right now I’m trying to move forward based on what I do know.

If I hit a wall in my recovery, a polygraph might be something I consider. But I’m not there yet.

I’m not naïve about what cheaters are capable of. I’ve done the reading. I’ve seen the patterns. And yes, she still works with the guy—but from what I can see, contact has been cut and boundaries are in place. Doesn’t mean I like it. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t eat at me. Just means that for now, I’m focusing on my side of the wreckage.

I agree with you about one thing 100%: I need to identify my hard lines and ask for them. That’s what I’m working on.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I know this isn’t easy for any of us.

I would say based on your evidence, you can reasonably conclude they didn't have sex.

That said, the betrayal you experience should not be diminished simply because it could have been worse. I highly recommend this just be "the information you have" about your betrayal, and not something you allow her to use to minimize what she has done.

The hard lines thing.... I really don't know if there is any way to not learn that the hard way.

Basically, because you want her to genuinely just get it, and she is going to be avoidant and not.... You will suffer until you have had enough to be forced to make the demand or ask for a divorce.

I don't think you can shortcut it because you feel the need for this to all be genuine. I don't know for certain how any of this will play out for you, but my guess is you will suffer until you genuinely want a divorce.

I’ll also add to this that just because it wasn’t physical doesn’t mean it wasn’t heading that way, you may have caught in time to stop it from becoming physical but that doesn’t change the intent on both their parts. Think about it, she told him it could not be physical but continued to sext with him and went on at least one date with him where he put his hand on her leg. She was giving him pretty mixed signals, telling him it couldn’t be physical but giving him every signal that he should continue pursuing her until she basically changes her mind and gives in. I’m not saying don’t try to reconcile, just saying you need to be careful and not let her rug sweep this. She betrayed you and the betrayal was only going to get deeper and worse if you hadn’t caught it. She doesn’t seem to understand how bad what she did was/is and if you reconcile without truly getting the truth from her and her showing true remorse and understanding that what she did was an affair whether they had sex or not (which is still in question regardless of what she or those texts say) then it will happen again the next time another man shows her attention. She won’t change (and she needs to) if there are no consequences
and you will be right back here telling us that she did it again and this time you filed for divorce.

I’ll also add to this that just because it wasn’t physical doesn’t mean it wasn’t heading that way, you may have caught in time to stop it from becoming physical but that doesn’t change the intent on both their parts. Think about it, she told him it could not be physical but continued to sext with him and went on at least one date with him where he put his hand on her leg. She was giving him pretty mixed signals, telling him it couldn’t be physical but giving him every signal that he should continue pursuing her until she basically changes her mind and gives in. I’m not saying don’t try to reconcile, just saying you need to be careful and not let her rug sweep this. She betrayed you and the betrayal was only going to get deeper and worse if you hadn’t caught it. She doesn’t seem to understand how bad what she did was/is and if you reconcile without truly getting the truth from her and her showing true remorse and understanding that what she did was an affair whether they had sex or not (which is still in question regardless of what she or those texts say) then it will happen again the next time another man shows her attention. She won’t change (and she needs to) if there are no consequences
and you will be right back here telling us that she did it again and this time you filed for divorce.

We are reconciling. I’ve decided to give her a chance and see if I can heal with her still at her job, even though that’s where the affair happened and where he still works. But I’ll be honest: it doesn’t feel like it’s working right now. I’m trying, but the weight of it all is still there. She says she’s committed, but healing in the same environment where it all went down makes everything harder. I haven’t ruled anything out yet, but if I feel like I can’t move forward this way, that’s going to have to change.

What you said about needing her to realize this was the right thing to do re: leaving her job is exactly how I feel. I feel like she should realize that she needs to do that if she wants to really keep us together.

The best WS candidates at R, get to that understanding rather quickly. If they have to be driven to do what is right, they just go through the motions bury the resentment and that will cause issues later. With others it takes the realization that the BS is truly down with halfhearted attempts to repair the damage before they get there. Unfortunately, that is also sometimes too late to save the relationship.

She told him it couldn’t get physical, and I have that in writing. Do I know for sure it didn’t happen before that? No. I don’t. All I can do is decide whether I believe her, and right now I’m trying to move forward based on what I do know.

I want to reinforce what was already said. This wasn't an emotional affair but a sexual one. One that may have had just one inappropriate physical touch, but was fully sexual in nature all the same. The mind is the most powerful sexual organ we have and she certainly was exercising it quite a bit when she described how she would go down on him or how she masturbates. Don't let anyone minimize this affair as just being an emotional one. Not yourself, not her, and not your therapist.

She also said a lot of things couldn't happen again that did. Sexting wasn't supposed to happen again, but there she was sexting with him again. Her reluctance shows she knew full well she was playing with fire. That it was wrong. Yet she could not resist. That should scare the living hell out of the both of you. She was on the path to having a tawdry affair in cars and hotels that would destroy both familys. She knew it was wrong but couldn't stop herself. The only reason this wasn't a full-blown physical affair was they were caught too soon.

Her major weight loss isn't helpful in this case. Being suddenly found more attractive by others is a hell of an ego boost. She needs to dig hard into her causes and fix them. If not she will fall again. If not with this AP, another.

The reason reconciliation doesn’t feel right is because you are not in reconciliation right now. She hasn’t left her job and cut off contact 100%. She hasn’t truly shown remorse or even acknowledged that she had an affair. The texts were one thing but she went on a date with him too, how could not understand it was an affair? The point is though that until she quits her job, shows real remorse and acknowledges that it was an affair and confronts herself on why she thought she could sext and date another man while married to you so she can understand how to avoid that situation in the future you won’t be able to reconcile. On the surface it might look like you are, but you would have just rug swept it without really addressing the issue so you won’t be able to trust her again and resentment will build up because of that lack of trust. She needs to prove to you that she can be trusted and that can’t happen unless she admits to herself she had an affair.

She admitted it was an affair — just not while it was happening. She said she didn’t think of it that way at the time, even though she was hiding it, deleting messages, and saying "this can’t happen again" while continuing to do exactly that.

Sexting wasn’t supposed to happen again. But it did. She knew it was wrong — her actions make that clear — but she didn’t stop. That should scare both of us. Because this wasn’t some harmless flirtation that got out of hand. It was a full-steam-ahead affair that only got derailed because it was caught early.

Their last messages weren’t some dramatic end, either. He was still trying to keep it going, and she told him they should take a few days to cool down and then just talk about books and poetry. Come on. That was just her trying to put the genie back in the bottle. He took every chance to push boundaries, and history shows that eventually, she gave in. I don’t believe for a second it would’ve just gone back to "normal." It was headed exactly where everyone knows it was headed.

She says otherwise, but we all know that's not true.

Actually, I think you are doing well. It’s a shitty situation dumped in your lap. From what you describe, your WW lost a lot of weight and as a result she received male attention including the AP. She liked the attention and was willing to lie and deceive you to keep it going. You have received good advice. I understand why you are advised to have her leave her job. It’s good advice, but there are often conflicting reasons to keep the income flow. And realize that wherever she works she needs to show you she can shut down unwanted male attention. Move forward with your IC, but she also needs to address her boundaries and demonstrate her commitment to your M. Always value yourself. Good luck.

My sanity would have been a lot better if my wife had quit her job but her job provides great medical insurance and we have three kids and as a dad I have to do what's best for my kids and that's why I didn't force my wife to quit her job and I said this to her. I told her I have to do what's best for my family because that's what a man does

There's a saying that a man will sacrifice his happiness for his family and woman will sacrifice her family for her happiness and I now believe that to be true

Like your wife mine said it was never going to become physical, I never would have let that happen. I said you can't say that with any certainty. Look how far it got and the only reason it stopped is because I stumbled into it. It didn't stop because you came to your senses. It didn't stop because you realized you were jeopardizing a 27-year relationship. Your conscience didn't make you stop. It was luck and my gut instinct that forced you to stop

There is no doubt in my mind that eventually it would have become physical. After the affair ended he (my wife's AP) moved on to the social worker at the school, who has a boyfriend. He told her all kinds of lies about his marriage and ended up banging her in his car. Actually the car belongs to him and his wife. I check in with his wife every so often to see how she's doing and this is his third affair and she's still giving him a chance

I just don't understand how she can give him a fourth chance

I check in with his wife every so often to see how she's doing and this is his third affair and she's still giving him a chance

That’s good of you. My wife’s AP’s wife told me to never contact her again when I told her what was going on. This was his second affair so idk.

Emotional affairs are tough for many reasons, one being the unclear definition of what constitutes an emotional affair. In fact – EA’s weren’t really recognized as infidelity until late 1980’s or early 1990’s, and then mainly due to the work of Dr. Shirley Glass (author of Not Just Friends). Even today a significant number of counselors don’t recognize or even understand the impact of emotional infidelity.

However... MOST definitions of EA’s try to differentiate between possible romantic content and sexual content. Generally, once the participants go from romantic content (I wish I was your lover) to actual sexual content (I want to taste your body, I want you to bring me to climax...) it crossed the border from emotional to sexual.

It might not be "classic" sex as in penis-in-vagina. But the content was intended to create sexual arousal. If we are thinking physical presence is a prerequisite for sex... well... would you consider it emotional if they sat in opposite corners of the same room masturbating?

If the intention with the action is to give the receiver sexual stimulation... it’s sexual.

Once again: The definition is important because you can only recover from what you know, and only heal from where you really are. If the two of you both consider this emotional infidelity there is the risk that one or both minimize what took place.

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Have shared this story so often here: I once managed a guy who had a workplace affair. The AP was actually a good friend of mine, in accounting in another department in the same company. His wife found out, and they decided to attempt reconciliation. He came to me asking to not have to interact with his AP for work.

I did what I could. I know for a fact that they had no need to meet at work. I noticed he stopped using the company canteen, that he did not attend company social events and that he phoned his wife a lot. I know from HER (the AP) that she ended the affair then-and-there. I have no reason to believe that there was ANY contact between the two and no infidelity after d-day.

About six months after d-day the AP resigned her job and started working at another company. The guy told me about a month later that this was when he first noticed marked progress in reconciliation. Once his wife felt safer about him and interactions with AP the wife was in a better place to commit to reconciliation.

This despite the AP only moving jobs by about a mile or so, and their infidelity-pattern (meeting at her apartment during lunch) still being an easy option. IF the husband and the AP had wanted to cheat... they could.

Yet the wife – the betrayed wife – couldn’t really get along in reconciliation until this separation took place. The distancing at work.

I think this might be the main reason we suggest they don’t work together. It’s for you – to give you more peace that it really is over.

The other reason is that presence makes relapses more likely. It’s like an alcoholic would be advised to stay away from bars and liquor stores for the first year(s) of sobriety. Yes – he (or your wife) could change jobs and still only be a mile apart, but the opportunity to chat when they are the last to leave a meeting room – even innocently – isn’t there.

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Plus... As a manager with decades of experience – I doubt the integrity of a company large enough to have a HR department that focuses on covering their liability-bases and still has a senior personnel that has a track record of office infidelities. If all the HR department has done is have your wife sign a letter of consent... I would want to know what the OM was made do.

That letter... really has no value though. If it came to a labor tribunal she could so easily state that she felt her job threatened had she not signed.

This all makes me doubt the quality of her workplace and how safe and nourishing an environment it might be.

Edited to add:
I know of managers fired for office affairs. More commonly (and have seen this in my place of work) a manager that has an affair with a subordinate or puts the company at any risk of a harassment charge is made aware that the chances of advancements are nonexistent. They get promoted to posts such as "Manager of Office Supplies", their present roles diminished, or they go on top of that list I mentioned for the next cutbacks...

[This message edited by SI Staff at 1:55 PM, Wednesday, August 6th]

I know of managers fired for office affairs. More commonly (and have seen this in my place of work) a manager that has an affair with a subordinate or puts the company at any risk of a harassment charge is made aware that the chances of advancements are nonexistent. They get promoted to posts such as "Manager of Office Supplies", their present roles diminished, or they go on top of that list I mentioned for the next cutbacks...

Her AP has been at the company for around 30 years. From what I understand, he's never shown any interest in advancing—something that’s reportedly frustrated the higher-ups for a while. I know this not just from what she’s told me, but from the fact that my wife has worked there for five years and I’ve met him a few times before all of this happened.

She goes into the office twice a week, and those days are brutal for me. I’ve told her I want her to leave the job—not to control her, but because I don’t see how we truly move forward while she still works with him. I just don’t want her to resent me for it. But honestly, I don’t think that place is good for her—or us.